Saturday July 25 2015
UPDATE: SINCE THIS ARTICLE WAS WRITTEN, NEW STUDIES PROVED THAT THERE ARE MORE GUN-OWNERS IN AUSTRALIA THAN EVER. READ ABOUT THAT HERE.
In 1996 a massacre in Tasmania left 35 people dead, and caused Australia to establish draconian gun control laws. They literally rounded up, destroyed and banned guns. Now the rumor goes, they haven’t had any mass shootings since, and that crime has decreased as a result. HINT: not quite.
Enter Obama, who said:
“When Australia had a mass killing, it was just so shocking to the system, the entire country said, ‘Well, we’re going to completely change our gun laws’, and they did. And it hasn’t happened since.”
Okay, we’ll get to his false quote in a second, but first, watch the video below.
It’s pretty obvious, by the currently measurable barometers that we have available, that Australia’s disarmament was a disaster. Maybe they didn’t have any more “mass-shootings”. Great. But what about the rest of the crime?
Well, there’s argument about whether the gun related homicides and other various crimes have actually increased or not. Some places have the homicide rate increasing at 3.2% along with armed robbery at 44%, while some other stats have them remaining about the same. At the very least, we do know that the policies have not significantly decreased crime. That’s not even being debated. Which…considering that the Australian government spent a considerable amount of money on the laws, seems at the very least, disappointing.
That’s not to address the most important issue at play here: what the Australian government did was an unfettered act of tyranny. Despite how leftists try to sugarcoat it, the Australian gun “buyback” program was mandatory. That makes it effectively a gun ban. When American leftists support Australian policies, they are absolutely, unequivocally supporting an outright ban on firearms. Disarming a populace is, at it’s very core, the denial of a human right to self-preservation.
I acknowledge that maybe some countries get lucky. Maybe they ban guns and crime decreases. It certainly would seem the exception to the rule, but it’s certainly not outside the realm of possibility.
That doesn’t make it any less tyrannical.
When a woman is facing a psychotic stalker, needing to protect herself from the inevitable attack that will occur, but the government denies her right to protection… that’s a travesty.
When somebody finds themselves on CAIR’s jihadi watch list and knows beyond any shadow of a doubt that protection of his family is imperative, and the government says “nuh uh”… that’s a travesty.
When a woman in Sweden (now the rape capital of the civilized world) faces a religiously-motivated gang-rape, and her only chance at getting out alive, a gun, is removed from her… that’s a travesty.
Yes, evil is will always be among us. Yes, bad people will do bad things with guns. That does not, and will never, change the fact that it is morally imperative for law-abiding citizens to maintain their right to self-preservation. Period.
Serious crime in Australia was already on a strong downward trend when this law went into effect. One thing that seems to have happened after the gun ban is that this trend has leveled off and, even if crime isn’t going back up….it isn’t continuing its previous downward trend…
Frustrated Teacher, I work with some Aussies who came to the US for work and are competitive shooters with long military backgrounds with there country. They said the gun crime rate has almost tripled since the gun theft of their government and the people there know it. Even the Aussie government admits the crime rate has sky rocketed. You may want to do some research instead of making comments just because you don’t like guns.. You can’t change the truth with a lie, you may slow it down a bit but it will still come out. I hope you don’t teach children with your lack truth and just your opinion. That’s the kind of teacher Obama wants, liberal propaganda teachers…
You really need to read that teachers statement again. You read it all wrong.
Richard, you are so obviously full of it that it’s sickening. It has been proven over and over again….gun ownership prevents much more crime than it fosters…..when law abiding citizens have guns, crime rates radically diminish…..there are multiple examples in the US that support the argument…..guns prevent crime. The real question arises….why don’t Australian citizens rise up and demand the repeal of such stupid laws?
How… ironic…
Check the graphic after clicking through.
http://www.businessinsider.com/australia-gun-control-shootings-2015-10
The ban did prevent mass shootings though, which I think we can all agree is a huge issue in the states…
I think you misunderstood his comment. He wasn’t saying anything against guns. He was making the point that even if the anti-gunners say that crime is decreasing in Australia (the truth of which I do not know, since I have not researched that), the rate at which it is decreasing is not as good as it was before the ban. He is saying that the ban was not effective.
Frank, you really need to read (something taught in school) before you bash someone. She clearly stated “even if crime isn’t going back up….it isn’t continuing its previous downward trend…” she is stating that crime is not going back down like it was before the gun ban thus siding with you. Troll someone else eh
Frank maybe you should look up some statistics, it has been proven that all gun related crime has decrease in Australia since the 1996 buy back, you are so ignorant and believe what this idiot has written each of the stats that he has told you are false. Victoria had a total of 7 gun related homicides in 1996 and it increased to 19 in 1997 a total of 12 people more than the year before, it only increased by 171% in a state that had a population increased by 25% (275,000) in the same year and since than gun related crime in Australia has dropped from 28.3% of all crimes where gun related to 13.8% in 2015 so mate dont tell poeple to do some reading until you have you ignorant America
It is common sense that with fewer guns around there will be fewer gun deaths, in particular accidental, however that is not the entirety of the issue. I find it abjectly perplexing why people focus on the tool used to commit crime rather than the crime itself. The near hysteria that is elicited by an inanimate object defies all rational reason. To expect there to be less murders committed simply because it has suddenly become harder to acquire a firearm is ludicrous, in fact I have yet to hear of firearm ownership as being the motive in a killing. Indeed the figures from the Australian Institute of Criminolgy (http://www.aic.gov.au/statistics/homicide.html) show no discernible decrease whatsoever. What has skyrocketed in recent years are violent crimes such home invasions and rape. Australia has a higher per capita rate of rape at 289.05 per million population vs United States at 274.04 per million (http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/Australia/United-States/Crime)
That being said the issue is not so one dimensional. Perhaps you yourself should do some reading as to number of crimes foiled due to gun ownership before inferring “ignorance” in others.
There will always be those willing to prey on others and commit unprovoked violence. Denying the vast majority of decent and law abiding citizens their unalienable right to defend their life and property goes beyond the mandate given to the government by the people. I would wager your viewpoint would change if the unthinkable were to happen and you, or someone close to you were to become a victim of crime.
http://jeffsachs.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/Australia-Gun-Law-Reforms.pdf
As an Australian I want to give you some perspective on the gun culture and the gun buy back scheme that occurred some 20 yrs ago.
Firstly the gun culture in Australia is totally different to that in the U.S. People here don’t feel they need to own/carry a gun on them in normal day to day life. It’s just they way we live our life here. Gun licenses are pretty strictly controlled in Australia, and their storage is also strongly controlled. It takes at least 3-6 months minimum to get a license before you can buy a gun, undergoing rigorous checks by the authorities.
Now the gun buy back scheme was done to eliminate certain guns in the community, particularly automatic and semi automatic guns. It was up to the gun owners if they surrendered their guns, and they were given compensation for their guns. It also eliminated numerous unregistered guns. Farmers who need guns for vermin control or stock control, were able to keep them. Hunters and professional shooters were able to keep theirs as well. They were able to keep their rifles and shotguns. Criminals will always get their hands on firearms, regardless, but we don’t have very many accidental shootings as has happened in the U.S., such as a 2-3 yr old accidentally shooting their mother dead while playing in her handbag, or two 5yr olds playing with the parent’s gun and shooting someone. Nor do we have disgruntled students turning up to school or University or Movie theatre and opening fire at people.
In short the U.S. problem is more or less due to it’s culture towards guns and gun ownership, and to change that will take time most likely a couple of generations. My question is why would someone need a military grade automatic or semi automatic rifle to shoot ducks, geese or deer?
We don’t need Military grade automatic or semi automatic rifles to shoot animals, we need them to shoot people that are a threat to our safety. Whether that be a robber, a person with a bomb strapped to their vest, a person on their way to shoot up a school or a theater, or in case we need to overthrow the government. Hell, the way things have been going lately, in case of a real civil war, or A “Without Rule of Law” situation. There are many reasons to own a military style weapon, and I will always fight for the right to own them.
you miss the point big time. Our founders didn’t include the second amendment to preserve the right of the people to hunt. That isn’t even questioned. Hunting is survival for a lot of rural communities and families. No, the framers included the second amendment to protect the citizenry from a tyrannical government. True story. The people have the right to keep and bear arms as a means to preserve their freedom from those who would wish to oppress the people. When you fight for independence and freedom, you tend to want to keep it.
I love how this article points to the fact that the information is false. The Snopes article that is linked is the evidence you need to show this is false. To make it easy http://www.snopes.com/crime/statistics/ausguns.asp
I’d like to read the story but it so covered with adds that lots of the words are hidden by the adds!
Rick, look into a little utility called AdBlocker. It is quite effective at blocking all of the bandwidth hogging ads that clog up your links and slow down the parts of a page you want to see. The only problematic thing I have found it does is that it also blocks the sharing links on most pages so that you must copy and pasts the URL of the page you want to share.
It’s not as bad when you visit the mobile site. He’s talked about trying to clear out some of the extraneous ads, but I wouldn’t hold my breath. I don’t mind the fact that he has to make money with the site, but damn, we want to be able to navigate it.
Here you go Rick, this will save your life online. https://adblockplus.org/
It’s not about the safety of the citizens it!s about control of the citizens!
True enough.
Gun control is misspelled.
The correct spelling is people control.
Only a brain-dead liberal would see this pile of confiscated firearms and think it’s a good thing. As a military vet, gun collector and NRA volunteer rifle instructor, I see a large pile of vintage sporting rifles and WWI bolt-action military rifles (which function EXACTLY as modern deer rifles). Not exactly the weapons of choice of criminals. COMPLETELY absent from view are anything that would classified by gun banners as an “assault weapon.” What a joke. Your streets are SO much safer because you confiscated vintage hunting rifles and near-antique, manually-operated service rifles. Keep telling yourselves that while you rub your teddy bears and watch TV.
so lets see, cain killed abel w/ a rock, david slew goliath w/ a rock, so lets ban rocks.
sampson did his worst w/ the jawbone of an ass, so lets ban dead donkeys.
joshua killed all of jericho w/ a trumpet, lets ban musical instruments.
Amen! And 19 Muslims hijacked 4 planes and took down 3 huge buildings in the WORST attack in American history with BOXCUTTERS!!!!!! Guns have never done that, so we have to ban boxcutters too! If 9/11 is not proof that people can still do evil without guns, then nothing is!
So 50,000+ Americans are killed annually by vehicles, we MUST BAN ALL VEHICLES, right?
100% of all drowning deaths was caused by water. LET’S BAN WATER!!! LIBTARD FUKTARD logic.
You, sir, are an idiot.
This article is at its core, the most retarded thing I have ever read. Keep going America with you “right to bare arms” it’s working so well. How many more people have to die so that the NRA can remain relevant? Change your god damn ways!
How about instead, you keep your Australian opinion out of our American way of life? Take your uneducated, inaccurate view back to Australia, we neither need it or want it.
Hahahaha and yes, you keep your mouth shut about Australian way of life then? Oh, too late.
Amen brother !!
Hey Brad, Unless you’re living in a Muslim-controlled country, most places concede the right to “bare arms”. Idiot.
brainwashed…. bunch of slogans chained togeather your presenting as thoughts…
America isn’t Europe. It isn’t Australia. Its more violent than either.That is the reality.There will be violence with or without guns (just as the UK had a lower murder rate, by far, when guns were legal and available) here. At least with them; we normal people are on a more equal footing with criminals (re: us older people, women, non gang member types who don’t spend hours working out everyday)…
To Brad(Australian living in America) Why the fuck are you still here if if your homland’s laws are so wonderfull!
If you don’t like it here go back to where you came from and take all these gun grabbing idiots with you. And contrary to public belief God’s last name is not dam at the least I could be said his full name is God the Father but that is a other subject.
Brad,
You need to carry your liberal ass back to Australia, and don’t let the door hit you in the ass on the way out !
Brad, please leave our country if you do not like it in this country OR go back to where you came. If you leave no one will lose any sleep… Douche bag
All I know that there is nearly 1million gun owners in Australia and if they all stuck together at election time and voted for the one party THE SHOOTERS AND FISHERS and give liberal and Labour less say about law abiding citizens owning guns BUT WE ALL HAVE TO STICK TOGETHER
http://theconversation.com/faking-waves-how-the-nra-and-pro-gun-americans-abuse-australian-crime-stats-11678
There has not been a gun massacre in Australia for 20 years – on the other hand in the US there has been on average 20 mass shootings per year. Check out the link above as it shows how pro gun people use stats to support their arguments and gives the actual facts about the situation in Australia.
interesting, but the authors bias is showing. Especially here: “The implication is gun control has increased assaults and sexual assaults. This is completely misleading.
Weapons (including knives) are only used in 13% of assaults and 2% of sexual assaults in Australia. Firearms are rarely the weapon used, and only 0.3% of assaults in New South Wales used firearms.
Firearm use is almost completely irrelevant to assault and sexual assault in Australia, and cannot be driving changes in these crimes. Suggesting otherwise is deceptive.”
He’s kind of missing the point, which is defense. People who are going to commit rape and/or assault are more likely to pick a victim they know isn’t armed vs one that has the potential to be armed.
Several variables need to be looked at.
a: population, per capita
b: what exactly is a mass shooting? If you define it as two or more people shot… umm; ok.. but is that really ‘mass’ and why don’t we consider mass attacks and assaults that don’t involve guns then for perspective… so we can see if guns are really the enabler here or just a prop in a trend happening anyway…
c: how many did Australia have when guns were available? I think they were a rarer occurrence even before their gun ban there… I admitting in a post above; this is not the same culture. It is more violent. True mass shooting were so rare, statistically, in Australia you can’t judge whether the gun ban had any effect since they wouldn’t be due for another one… either way… yet… but it appears crime itself is up. Including violent crime. That’s no surprise from what I know about these stats.
What are you talking about? Australia just had a mass killing in a downtown Sydney chocolate shop because a Muslim guy went off his nut and killed a bunch of people with a shotgun.
Incorrect. There was recently a shooting at a restaurant by a Muslim.
Do you remember the Clackamas shooting in Oregon a couple of years ago. Two people died because of a rampage shooter and it is highly suspected that it would have been much higher death rate if it was not for a man that had a concealed weapon. That man stopped the shooter because he had a firearm, he saved lives, just as it is in Switzerland “good guns stop the bad guns.” One more thing, the vast majority of those on the left that want to get rid of guns don’t really care about the guns, that’s just superficial, there main objective is to beat those on the right, beat the Republicans. Beating the Republicans at anything and everything is their real objective, that is what drives them every day. Win, win, win over the right and everything they stand for no matter what! You can talk to these people (not everybody on the left, just the ones that are anti-gun fanatics) until you are blue in the face with nothing but facts to back you up, they won’t listen, they can’t. If there was one more leftist on the Supreme Court in 2008 when the Court herd arguments for & against the Second Amendment, the right to own a gun would have been given to the states (this is actually incorrect because all Bill of Rights Amendments start at the federal level and everybody is affected). If this took place, Illinois would have been the first to outlaw guns, do you think for one minute that black on black deaths from guns would have gone down, do you! WHY ISN’T ILLINOIS LOOKING AT THIS PROBLEM, HUH!
From an Australian
At the time, supported gun buy-back. Now gun violence is low here (as is crime). But price is that the Government is big brother in every aspect of life & freedom is curtailed.
Of course, it begs the question… what is the value of lower gun violence if there is no change (or even negative change) in actual violence?
The left’s played Orwellian language games with this ‘gun violence’ talk imo. People don’t even see it / it worked.
if it’s as easy as making gun ownership illegal. Why don’t we make drugs illegal, and they’ll all go away. Oh yeah that didn’t work.
Great one Victor.
A couple of points…
[1] Australia was able to confiscate its citizens guns because there is no Constitution to say they can’t. In America, we have a Constitutional Right to own (and bear) guns.
[2] There is ONE significant common factor in all “mass shootings” besides the fact that a gun was involved, and it bugs me that this isn’t brought out enough — without exception, the killer was on psychotropic prescription medications or was otherwise mentally disturbed.
[3] Criminals don’t surrender their guns, and can easily obtain them on the black market. Only law abiding citizens obey laws! This is why there are still gun crimes in Australia.
[4] Mass killings are undertaken without guns too, but you don’t hear much about them.
I encourage you to look at these statistics:
http://world.time.com/2012/12/20/the-swiss-difference-a-gun-culture-that-works/
and
http://crimepreventionresearchcenter.org/2014/03/comparing-murder-rates-across-countries/
[5] Laws banning things don’t work. Just look at the huge success of anti-drug laws!
How the hell do these people expect anyone to read this site with all the ad’s. all the ads freeze the page and you have to wait to scroll to the next. This is a site I think I will put on my “Do Not Visit” list. Just not worth coming to if you can’t read the It.
And the stuff about rape in Sweden is sketchy too. You can’t really compare crime reporting between countries very easily for a number of reasons: 1> The way Sweden handles crime statistics is different than a lot of countries. If the crime is initially reported as a rape, it makes it into the statistics. If the crime is later reclassified by prosecutors, it doesn’t change the statistics. 2> Sweden counts each victim as well as each time a victim was raped, whereas most countries count multiple rapes of a single victim as one rape. 3> Sweden has a wider definition of rape that most countries (fortunately so. It offers much more protection.) 4> Unlike in a lot of countries where rape is considered a mark of shame, victims in Sweden are far more likely to report a rape. 5> In Sweden, all reported crimes must be investigated, whereas many countries (like the U.S.) criminals can be plea bargained when multiple offenses are involved and not all the crimes get counted.
We have some of the same problems with how we record murders in the USA. So our actual murder rate is lower… If the police on the scene record it as a murder initially; it ends up as a murder in the FBI’s stats. Even if it is later reclassified (self defense, accident, suicide, et cetera)… so; I’m not sure it’s unique to Sweden’s recording system. I’d have to check if we do the same thing I know we do with murder stats with other types of violent crimes.
All our gun violence stats are also suspect. Criminals shot under any circumstances end up in them, suicides, et cetera. Gang members under 18 end up in the ‘children’ shot stats, et cetera…
The second amendment was written for us, by us….love the United States and governing Constitution or get out….
England is a good example of how gun confiscation can backfire. Sure, their gun crime went down. That’s kinda a no brainer. Remove all the guns, and gun crime will decrease. But what about the other violent crimes? In England’s case, it went through the roof. England’s overall violent crime is 4 times that of the US and one of the highest in all of Europe.
That myth has been debunked a thousand times and I’m surprised people still subscribe to it. Do a Google search if you don’t live in the UK to actually witness it. Just for your info stats aren’t done just for England.
The Home Office records EVERY assault as a crime even if’s a minor offence and includes sexual assault. Rape is also classified as non-gender specific. Crimes are reported more in the UK as well because of our good relationship with law enforcement – we trust them. If you don’t report it – it doesn’t obviously go in.
The UK’s crime rate went up because of changes to recording crimes but then went straight back down. One of our right wing tabloids even had a disclaimer acknowledging this.
But lastly, we don’t have a gun ban and never have and I can’t understand why people think this – it was a handgun ban. Automatic weapons were restricted long before this happened. Public awareness went up, crime went down.
The people in Australia live in fear of home invasiion as they have little self protection against a break in or worse. So, what is happening is that many (especially the older citiziens) are basically barricading themselfves in their homes. They have to put bars on the windows and doors that are reinforced to keep the trespassers out long enough for the police to get there and help them. The law abiding citizens have been disarmed and the criminals are armed as they have always been. A deranged person can always find a gun if he/she wants one as the black market for guns is booming in Australia just like it is in America.
Gun control is a pipe dream when it comes to crime prevention or mass killings, however, it does give the government much more control over its civilian population.
WTF are you talking about?? That’s total bullshit. I live in Australia and no, I don’t “live in fear of home invasion”. I leave my door unlocked at night. You need to get out more and see how the rest of the world lives. You live in the most uncivilised, violent country on Earth – don’t try to foist your paranoia on the rest of us. Live by the gun, die by the gun. Try watching something other than Fox for your “news” or, better still, go travelling and see how most of the civilised world lives without the need to arm themselves against their neighbours. How many deaths will it take?
Your anecdotal experience does not represent the whole reality. Try taking your head out of the sand and look at the facts on crime. The most violent places in the United States are in a small handful of cities with the most restrictive gun laws. If those few cities are excluded than the United States would rank as nearly the lowest in crime on the planet. If you like anecdotal info, than I too don’t lock my doors. However, I am unaware of a single home in my area that does not have a gun, yet we have nearly no crime at all.
Here’s an ‘anecdote’ for you. Nicholas Kristoff, New York Times: “the numbers are unarguable: fewer than 1.4 million [US] war deaths since 1775, more than half in the Civil War, versus about 1.45 million gun deaths since 1970 (including suicides, murders and accidents). If that doesn’t make you flinch, consider this: In America, more preschoolers are shot dead each year (82 in 2013) than police officers are in the line of duty (27 in 2013), according to figures from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and the FBI. More than 60 percent of gun deaths are suicides, and most of the rest are homicides.” By my reckoning that’s 580,000 homicides in 45 years. Head in the sand? No crime at all? From where we stand that looks like insanity, like a great nation intent on destroying itself.
When you look at intentional homicides by country, you should be comparing “per capita”, not just raw numbers. Raw numbers are easily misleading. USA is #125 out of 218 countries (as of when I looked today).
Also, you should look into “reason and force” before you speak of using or not using a firearm to defend yourself
Dave – I did a quick survey of 200 Australians on my Facebook page and none of them said they live in fear of home invasion. Where did you get your facts and figures for that sweeping statement?
Either you are an irresponsible gun owner and leave your gun under your pillow or on you at all times in case of a home invasion, or you keep it locked up safely away from kids and it wouldn’t help you during a home invasion anyway.
Do you guys think there are no gun owners in Australia? Of course there are – you can get a license and own guns if you want to. I lived with a guy who used to hunt and bring home the meat. We just screen folks before giving them guns. Every time there is a mass shooting in the USA, the gun nuts carry on about the fact that they had a mental illness – “it’s not the guns, it’s not the guns! We just need to get MORE guns and make sure all toddlers are open carrying to ward off an attack! The shooter had a mental illness!” Well then, why are you against screening folks and having a license to own a gun? If you’re an upstanding citizen who only wants to kill people for breaking and entering your home, then why are you so afraid of regulating who owns guns? Scared you’d not be given one?
When a woman is facing a psychotic stalker, needing to protect herself from the inevitable attack that will occur, but the government denies her right to protection… that’s a travesty.
When somebody finds themselves on CAIR’s jihadi watch list and knows beyond any shadow of a doubt that protection of his family is imperative, and the government says “nuh uh”… that’s a travesty.
When a woman in Sweden (now the rape capital of the civilized world) faces a religiously-motivated gang-rape, and her only chance at getting out alive, a gun, is removed from her… that’s a travesty.
Stalker, rapes and jihads, sounds liek you have covered the bases,
When a person with a gun shoots up a high school, that’s ok
When someone with a gun shoots up a theater, that’s ok
When someone with a gun shoots up an elementary school, that’s ok
When someone shoots up a armed forces recruiting office, that’s ok
When someone shoots up a domestic army base, that’s ok
When someone shoots up a city as a sniper, that’s ok
Yeah, totally, let’s have lots of guns, I see you point.
we have enough right winger hereGuns seem to be only thing on your mind. Every time some one kills, mass of single shooting the shooter turns out to have a mental illness. Which means the US has more people running around with mental illness & if you can only think of guns, you may have a mental illness of some sort
This is a load of NRA propaganda and I am ashamed that anyone would use this to argue the points. Please check http://www.snopes.com/crime/statistics/ausguns.asp
Have a look at the video – you can tell by the cars and the clothing it is well and truly dated – the statistics they quote are not accurate in any way shape or form- see http://www.nationmaster.com/…/Austr…/Crime/Violent-crime But seriously – How do I know? I live in Australia and have since 1998!! I have seen both the American culture as well as the Australian culture – I choose to live here in Australia where it actually is safer.
What I can say is that from what I see, it hasn’t wiped out crime and let’s be honest – it never intended to nor is it designed to. To believe it would or could, would be a figment of someone’s imagination.
What the laws did do was stop access to guns for people who had no real need for them – to quote snopes: ” the 1997 buyback program did not take away all the guns owned by these groups; only some types of firearms (primarily semi-automatic and pump-action weapons) were banned. And even with the ban in effect, those who can demonstrate a legitimate need to possess prohibited categories of firearms can petition for exemptions from the law.”
I have lived and / or visited places all over Australia. When someone is shot in Australia, regardless of where it has happened – it is on the national news – it happens rarely, so it is a big deal and everyone talks about. The majority of gun crime association has been linked directly to motorcycle gangs or bikies as they are called here. The Government have been working on laws forbidding these type of clubs or organization to reduce this even further, and like the gun laws a few are skeptical about how these are going to work and there are many screaming unfair about the laws…. the jury is still out on how effective these laws will be – we know it takes time for change.
Dear oh dear, you yanks and your guns. Keeps getting harder for you to defend so you now try to discredit Australia’s statistics.
So here’s the facts :- http://www.aic.gov.au/dataTools/facts/weaponSpecified.html (from our governmental institute of criminology – and yes…some will say the data isn’t factual because it’s provided by the government. These people are morons! )
*Use of weapon in violent crime, (Homicide) by type of weapon (%)
2012 – No weapon – 31%, Knife 29%, Other weapon 22%, Firearm 17%
1996 – No weapon – 23%, Other weapon 46%, Firearm 31%
Facts are there in black and white people, 14% decline in firearm-related homicides between 1996 – 2012 ( who is this Crowder goose anyway? All good spouting facts and figures……except when they’re incorrect! )
Way to completely miss the point.
The issue is not “percentage of homicides involving firearms” but relative rates of homicides (all types) period.
The trend of decreasing homicidal violence in the Western world has been going on since the 1970s, in New Zealand, in Australia, and in the US. There was no significant change in that trend in any of those countries as a result of firearms restrictions. America achieved almost exactly the same outcome as Australia doing pretty much nothing at all.
Gun laws are nothing more than feel good political masturbation.
http://jeffsachs.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/Australia-Gun-Law-Reforms.pdf
Are they going to ban battery powered nail guns? Criminals are the ones shooting and killing people, not law abiding people. In one case a woman allowed her crazy son access to firearms, and that’s illegal too. But they continue to harass people that would never shoot anyone except to defend their lives. The background check system seems to be at fault because it isn’t catching people that are not qualified to carry a firearm. Qualified means you train to be safe. What is at fault are the people that are taught they are entitled to hurt others to get what they want. Who is schooling these folks to believe this way?
Preventing mass shooting is exactly why we need gun control in America and Australia demonstrates this as stated in this article. Sure it’s not going to end all crime and nothing will but lowering the rates to a plateau is better than increasing it to a plateau. In mass shootings guns are used because they are the most lethal and accessible. It’s better to prevent casualties. Especially, when the person who is holding that gun is not in their right mind.
Gun control will not take the rights of people to protect themselves against criminals. People can still use everything else as a weapon to defend themselves such as tasers guns, pepper spray, and baseball bats.
Josh, God gave every creature, myself included , the right to defend my fmily and myself. The second amendment protected that right. If the second amendent is repealed, the rest will soon follow. If you want to take on armed criminals with your pepper spray, I wish you a lot of luck. That is not what I will do. Taking guns from people like me makes us all less safe, not more. Existing laws should be enforced: less than 1% of those turned down trying to buy a gun who lied on the application are ever arrested. Most felons caught with guns are not charged for that crime. Better mental health care and better reporting to the NICS system are needed.
In the twenty years prior to the mass shooting that killed 35 people there were a total of 60 people killed in mass killings. In the twenty years after, there were a total of 68 killed in mass killings. So as you can see Australia, your gun ban did not eliminate mass killings.
Fox “News” statistics again? The facts offer a different analysis: in the 18 years before the 1996 Port Arthur massacre there were 13 gun massacres (classified as events with 4 or more deaths) with a total of 102 people killed. In the 19 years since the legislation there hasn’t been a single massacre and the 1996-2006 period saw a 59% drop in homicides by guns.
http://jeffsachs.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/Australia-Gun-Law-Reforms.pdf
If we would just focus on the mental health issues that are out of control in this country… or maybe all the stupid fucking parents feeding their kid unnecessary meds all their life bc they can’t handle or raise a child. Maybe people wouldn’t grow up and decide to walk into theater and shoot a bunch of people for no reason. Most of these “mass” shooting are not by criminals, but people with mental illnesses. It’s not guns that kill people. It’s stupid people raised by stupid people that kill people. Everyone needs to get their heads out of their asses and see it for what it is. Either metal or straight up terrorism… Why don’t we just go ahead and blame the pharmaceutical industry that creates a medication that treats a toe fungus but makes you want to go hang yourself… ??????? “Take twice a day for treatment of hang nail.” “If you have suicidal thought, see you doctor immediately.”
Mass shootings are rare in the US, ao of course they are very rare in Australia – a country with 24 million people. But if you think that gun control will stop mass killings, I have three words for you – Norway, Anders Breivik. For some reason, liberals think that if they require enough signs that ladders are dangerous or take enough rights away from the law abiding, they can stop bad things from happening.
I just read an article connected to this story. John Howard the Australian Prime Minister that oversaw the gun ban/buy back sites as support for his action a study that admits that the evidence SEEMS to show that homicides are down, BUT that there is conclusive evidence that SUICIDES are way down
The fact that the pathetic, soul down the street can not figure out how to himself without a gun, does not make my family any safer.
If Obama is so in love with Australian gun laws, why doesn’t he just move there.
Hell no! Please send him somewhere else!! The liberal infestation is dire enough here already!
Some more thoughts-
Beyond the right to defend yourself where is the talk of the ridiculous amount of mental illness, poverty or the culture of violence that breeds in the US? None of these people shooting up schools and public places are mentally stable. Criminals will always get guns so why isn’t that addressed? Poverty in the US – why isn’t that addressed? Writing checks to have babies has never worked and your seeing (at least) the second and third generation product of that mistake. Maybe more 2 parent families and personal responsibility would help out that problem but now I’m talking like a right wing nut job right….. Hollywood has been flooding us with violence forever. Now I love it as much as the next guy but I would never do something crazy….. Look at Youtube and watch all the violence people post daily. It’s all about culture especially the young people. Maybe because they are angry at their situation in life because no role models, responsible parents etc Why is the gangbanger culture so popular? Fix that and then you have something. Why don’t we address those problems instead of BLAMING a damn piece of metal!!!!
The US gun law is from the US Constitution. It’s basis is to insure the government will not over power the citizens with lawless acts and take away our liberties, which we have shown over the decades and centuries, we will fight to the death to keep. Is that a far fetched idea today, in this world? Even with guns in the populace, look at all the countries in the world with governments that have slaughtered their citizens with their armies; About half the counties in Africa. Many in the Mid East. And how many countries that control their propaganda and write their own history have advanced on their citizen protests on the basis that the government is always right and all protests are wrong. How many citizens have been killed by all those governments over just the past decades. Millions I would think would be any easy guess. Until Obama, I never thought that would happen in the US because of our right to bear arms.
How about ALL Americans start voting so they get a better Government? The constitution was around long before the invention of automated weapons. Besides, no one is saying you couldn’t have guns, just that you would need a license and background check. What are you so scared of? That they wouldn’t give you one?
The weapons around during the debates which crafted the US Constitution and the Bill of Rights were all state-of-the-art military grade weapons. the Founders saw no distinction or any difference. compared to a bow and arrow, the flintlock was a killing machine and perfectly at home in the hands of a free American.
Look people Honduras is the murder capital of the world !
You seriously want to post a propaganda video made by the NRA ( yes it was) , that gives false statistics about the gun ban failing in Australia and have it taken seriously’
for a start there is no comparison between the gun laws in Australia and the USA.
Handguns have always been close to impossible to possess in Australia
the buyback just removed military style and some other automatic weapons.
If you want some actual statistics on the decline in gun crime in Australia check here http://www.aic.gov.au/statistics/homicide.html
You wrote:
“At the very least, we do know that the policies have not significantly decreased crime.”
Quite a dishonest argument. Even the most cautious, conservative studies have shown that Australia’s homicide rate has decreased 40% since 1996. And keep in mind this is a nation that had fewer than 600 firearm homicides and suicides per year.
Dishonest argument, kid
Go look at a longer time line. Homicides per head of population have been in decline since the 1970s, that’s true in the US as well as Australia. The gun laws made no difference to the trend.
And he stated “crime” not “homicide”.
Reading comprehension bro, you dig it?
I am an aussie. The gun laws helped our country a lot and has massive support from the majority of the population.
Thank you so much. I’m glad to hear what an Aussie and his peers think.
Its not tyranny. They didnt round up all the disidents and send them to prison or have them shot. Their elected officials passed laws and the letter of the law was carried out. Thats 100% completely the opposite of tyranny. Thats democracy in action. The general populace has had many chances to change things through free elections but they have not chosen to do so. Because you dont like what the law says does not make it tyranny.
Cant facepalm hard enough for you guys. The source you use to claim “Some places have the homicide rate increasing at 3.2% along with armed robbery at 44%,” was a webpage that clearly debunked this bullshit claim made by an anonoymous person on the internet with no source of infomation given whatsoever. Thats like calling vaccination caused autism because some shaddy person on facebook said so.
I’ll use this over used quote, guns don’t kill people, people kill people.
*drops mic*
Actually, mass shootings in Australia have continued at about the same rate after the gun confiscation as it did before the grab. Ironically, it wasn’t like Aussies had very many mass shooting to begin with. There were just twelve in the last eighty years. And three of those occurred AFTER private gun ownership was outlawed. So Obama is telling a huge lie when we says “And they haven’t had one since!”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_mass_murders
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-32995911
sooo….. 3.4% up in australia. Doesnt really compare AT ALL to the raising homicide rates in the US.
Fair enough, armed robberies in Australia up 44%. A robber only wants money, not to kill and risk life in prison. If the person getting robbed pulls a gun on the guy already pointing the gun. You are really escalating the situation. And you risk your life to small amounts of money. Instead of spending money on guns, spend the money on a robbery prof cashier, which sprays inc on the money. If the robber already knows a place cant be robbed for money. They really wouldn’t be robbing it in the first place.
Most of the decrease in “gun violence” in Australia after the ban was suicides.
Their is no way in hell could I see my guns cut in half, they are like part of my family. The only reason they want our guns is because that is the last line of defense from an out of control government.
It is something that these people swear an oath to uphold and protect the constitution of the United States of America and have no intent on actually doing it, these people are guilty of treason and should be tried as such.
I will not ever hand over my guns to Obama, Hilary, or any other nut job in office that thinks they can trump my rights with a BS law that violates the 2nd amendment. I would rather die on my feet then live on my knees.
Well this has been an interesting read. Jeff you just summed up your whole reason for being so defensive on this, you just love your guns, plain and simple. Jeff Rambo. And now let’s hear the stay in your own country Aussie comments, which is fine and I will, will American’s promise to do the same? How about keeping out of other countries affairs around the world? For those with the argument that if everyone had a gun to ‘protect’ themselves it would be a safer place, then applying the same logic every nation in the world should have the right to have nuclear weapons? If we write up an admendment it should be ok yeah? I’m a responsible nuke owner, why should I have my rights taken away. Why did you take the nukes away from Cuba? A lot of the gun advocates would have been all for taking away their rights to have weapons and it wasn’t even your own country. The gun advocates must be over the moon that North Korea is exercising their right to have weapons. Now some smart ass will say that technically North Korea shouldn’t have nukes as there is already nuke control so therefore gun control won’t work. What’s worse, having a few bad people with bad weapons or having everyone with bad weapon?. Most of the rest of the world simplifies this whole topic, you have a lot of guns, you have a lot of gun crime. Now how you fix that is up to your country, but instead of coming across as stubborn, childish, uneducated, racist, maybe just maybe as a nation you can come together and say “yeah, maybe there is an issue here and maybe we need a fresh start at looking at the problem and maybe that involves decreasing the number of guns in society” At the moment half of your nation is like Jeff Rambo with all the usual arguments which when you strip it back to the core of it is, you just love your guns because they give you power. It’s this half that is not even interested in solving the issue and decreasing overall deaths in your nation, they just care for themselves. As long as they have a gun to look after themself that’s all that matters. And it is this perception that the rest of the world sees that should have all Americans worried. This is getting bigger than just your gun control, this is affecting your global perception, you are becoming the laughing stock of the world. If Americans are only worried about power and don’t even care about other Americans lives that could have been prevented God help the rest of us. If as a global society we made a decision, no more nukes for anyone, everyone knows the U.S. Would just say “don’t take my guns, opps I mean nukes” Its all about maintaining power and control. Many strong countries / empires have come and go, most recently Britain was the undisputed world superpower. It seems now the tide is starting to change. China and Russia are emerging, do Americans really want the rest of the world starting to question why the U.S. has majority of the power in the world when is seems their people are gun crazy and not willing to listen to what the rest of the world has to say. You have a problem, a problem that is becoming bigger than just gun control alone, and you will only be able to find a solution once all your people are willing to change which may involve giving up your beloved guns and a bit of power.
Interesting argument, but you’re comparing apples and oranges. There is no possible way a nuke could be considered a “defensive” weapon, except in the sense of a deterrent. It’s either used offensively, or in a retaliatory manner. Guns, on the other hand are something that can be used defensively.
The reference to Sweden as ‘rape capital of the civilised world’ is BS. Sweden is very feminist and therefore places a much greater emphasis on rape as a crime and records rape incidences very differently to, say, The US. What Sweden would count as ten incidences by a husband, America would count as a single incidence of spousal rape – if it recorded it at all. Bottom line is that all other violent crimes in Sweden are well below Sweden.
Sorry, that should say at the end: “are well below the US”
It’s upsetting to read articles like this. I’m from Ireland, where the only people allowed to carry guns are the special branch police, those with ape oak hunting licenses who are vetted by police and the military. We have never had a mass shooting, murder rates here are around 50 per year for the entire country and most of those are gang members. In the US gun related murders are at a rate of 10.5 per 100,000, In Australia they are at 0.86 per 100,000, which means you are about 12 or 13 times as likely to be killed by a firearm in the US as in Australia. Studies have proven that gun owners are more likely to be killed by their own weapon when an intruder breaks in. The issue comes down to a lack of education for the average American, who is then fed propaganda by gun groups and right wing elements. The truth is that in countries with no guns there are less problems. Our police force aren’t armed, we had one police death this year, it was the first time in years that a police officer has died on duty. I love the US and lived there for the past year, but the people I feared the most were the police as they are badly trained and are too quick to draw a gun. What if I was running in their direction, what if I pulled my phone from my pocket, they shoot to kill. There are great aspects to America and some wonderful people there, but in many ways it is a second world country, mass poverty, mass killings and you think you have it great, if you went to Australia or Europe you’d realise there are so many basic things you are denied and you would realise the danger guns and these red neck idiots who push them are placing you in. I’m not having a go at the aerican way of life, but keep in mind that the constitution was written hundreds of years ago when there was a very real threat of a mass invasion by a foreign power that was more powerful than America and so the right to bear arms was necessary so as the men could defendt he country, that threat does not exist today. Automatic high powered rifles as used in mass shootings in schools did not exist then, so the constitution was not written with them in mind. It seems some people value the right to do whatever they want without regard for the danger they place others in, more than they value life, incluslding that of their children who inevitably face such danger as a result. It’s a shame.
Some of these folks need to do a little research their are several counties in the western part of the USA that permit open carry an therefore have the lowest crime rates
I am an Australian and a firearms owner.
Since the tragic incident at Port Arthur, it is true that there has not been a single incident on that scale since the gun buyback. Instead there have been several smaller incidents using firearms that were either brought into Australia illegally, had not been surrendered during a previous buy back or amnesty period or surrendered and sold onward by corrupt. police.
The firearm used in the siege of the Lindt Cafe in Sydney was reported lost in 1996 and the recent murder of police employee Curtis Cheng was with a firearm that was smuggled into the country illegally.
Now that a generation has grown up under a system where the ownership of firearms is heavily restricted, many do not fear retaliation when committing serious or violent crimes. The criminal cares not for laws and will have little trouble obtaining a firearm from several sources with the right amount of cash.
To say that the buyback has reduced crime is at best a misreading of statistics and at worst a blind attempt at social engineering!
As an australian, Im not the slightest bit worried about gun violence. Dont get me wrong, it happens here all the time! But it always seems to be criminal-on-criminal gun violence. And its often related to biker gangs who for the most part target other gangs instead of the public.
Knives are a bigger problem than guns, which in my opinion are just as lethal.